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	<title>Comments on: Stock compensation in early stage start-ups: Shares or Stock options?</title>
	<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/</link>
	<description>India's leading venture capital and startup blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Deepak Shenoy</title>
		<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-168486</link>
		<dc:creator>Deepak Shenoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-168486</guid>
		<description>Vamsi, Yes, the CEO needs to pay you Rs. 50L. Now you can provide the money to him as a soft loan and sell him shares and he pays you with the same money you lent him. This "getting back" could entail a capital gain but if you sell the shares at par (assuming you bought them at par) there is no capital gain involved. 

Shares should not be transferred free of cost, as the capital structure may a) bring in the taxman who says it's a deemed benefit that should be taxed as income in the buyer's hands and b) it'll appear in due diligence forever and you will be asked why every single time.

http://www.nseindia.com/content/nsccl/nsccl_focorpactions.htm is the link for how NSE does adjustment for options when there are dividends and bonuses. This does not apply to private firms - I don't know if there are any regulations saying you have to do it like the NSE. But if you do use it, explaining will be easier to the tax department why it was done this way. 

I'd slightly disagree with Krish. (but yes, dividends and bonuses are probably not that big a deal to think about right now) I've been through a legal due diligence in the recent past, during the sale of my last employer. The accountants and lawyers will find every nit picking way to stall and question and negotiate, and if you screw up something like stock based compensation you will end up in accountant/legal hell, or at least make you believe hell exists. Keep it simple, but don't shove it aside and "work it out later".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vamsi, Yes, the CEO needs to pay you Rs. 50L. Now you can provide the money to him as a soft loan and sell him shares and he pays you with the same money you lent him. This &#8220;getting back&#8221; could entail a capital gain but if you sell the shares at par (assuming you bought them at par) there is no capital gain involved. </p>
<p>Shares should not be transferred free of cost, as the capital structure may a) bring in the taxman who says it&#8217;s a deemed benefit that should be taxed as income in the buyer&#8217;s hands and b) it&#8217;ll appear in due diligence forever and you will be asked why every single time.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nseindia.com/content/nsccl/nsccl_focorpactions.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nseindia.com/content/nsccl/nsccl_focorpactions.htm</a> is the link for how NSE does adjustment for options when there are dividends and bonuses. This does not apply to private firms - I don&#8217;t know if there are any regulations saying you have to do it like the NSE. But if you do use it, explaining will be easier to the tax department why it was done this way. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d slightly disagree with Krish. (but yes, dividends and bonuses are probably not that big a deal to think about right now) I&#8217;ve been through a legal due diligence in the recent past, during the sale of my last employer. The accountants and lawyers will find every nit picking way to stall and question and negotiate, and if you screw up something like stock based compensation you will end up in accountant/legal hell, or at least make you believe hell exists. Keep it simple, but don&#8217;t shove it aside and &#8220;work it out later&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Vamsi</title>
		<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-168226</link>
		<dc:creator>Vamsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-168226</guid>
		<description>Deepak, even if the current owners are fine with transfering the shares  they have to be purchased by the CEO right? and that'll cost Rs.50L which is a considerable amount. Can the shares be transfered free of cost? can you pls send me the NSE link w.r.t stock options? also are the rules applicable to private firms?

Krish, you are right. We are trying to hammer out the MOU, however we want to execute the stock comp the correct way, so that we wont have any complications (for the company or the CEO) later on. 

Alok, yes thats another big problem. Thats why we are trying to figure out the right way to give the stock comp. 

Srinivas, you can assume a 25% dilution with the promoters holding the rest. 

Vamsi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deepak, even if the current owners are fine with transfering the shares  they have to be purchased by the CEO right? and that&#8217;ll cost Rs.50L which is a considerable amount. Can the shares be transfered free of cost? can you pls send me the NSE link w.r.t stock options? also are the rules applicable to private firms?</p>
<p>Krish, you are right. We are trying to hammer out the MOU, however we want to execute the stock comp the correct way, so that we wont have any complications (for the company or the CEO) later on. </p>
<p>Alok, yes thats another big problem. Thats why we are trying to figure out the right way to give the stock comp. </p>
<p>Srinivas, you can assume a 25% dilution with the promoters holding the rest. </p>
<p>Vamsi.</p>
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		<title>By: Krish</title>
		<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167930</link>
		<dc:creator>Krish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167930</guid>
		<description>At an early stage, keep everything simple. The terms of stock compensation etc., is best summarized in an MOU signed between the founders and the CEO. Bonus, Dividends are all a far cry since the primary concern is one of the startup coming of age. That's where the test of the CEO and his team lie. That's when a startup stock - till then bearing a valuation that is entirely arguable - assumes some real value. Focus on valuation, FBT, TDS etc., at an early stage is not just cumbersome, fraught with arbitrariness and risk, it robs the enterprise of precious startup steam.

Have some basic understanding on compensation, set performance benchmarks and focus on hitting the market. Don't waste too much time haggling for option structure. There's no fun in holding 1/3rd stake in a startup that never takes off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At an early stage, keep everything simple. The terms of stock compensation etc., is best summarized in an MOU signed between the founders and the CEO. Bonus, Dividends are all a far cry since the primary concern is one of the startup coming of age. That&#8217;s where the test of the CEO and his team lie. That&#8217;s when a startup stock - till then bearing a valuation that is entirely arguable - assumes some real value. Focus on valuation, FBT, TDS etc., at an early stage is not just cumbersome, fraught with arbitrariness and risk, it robs the enterprise of precious startup steam.</p>
<p>Have some basic understanding on compensation, set performance benchmarks and focus on hitting the market. Don&#8217;t waste too much time haggling for option structure. There&#8217;s no fun in holding 1/3rd stake in a startup that never takes off.</p>
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		<title>By: Alok Mittal</title>
		<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167927</link>
		<dc:creator>Alok Mittal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167927</guid>
		<description>Please note that when you pay your exec 55 lacs in the first option, she has to pay income tax on the same as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please note that when you pay your exec 55 lacs in the first option, she has to pay income tax on the same as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Deepak Shenoy</title>
		<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167662</link>
		<dc:creator>Deepak Shenoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167662</guid>
		<description>The last budget introduced a huge problem for stock option plans - that the employers pay Fringe Benefit Tax when the option vests. This seems to be not on issue, and not on exercise, but on vesting. For public companies, not a big problem as they have a market value and the FBT rules indicate that the difference between the market value and the strike price on the day of vesting is the value on which FBT is payable (30% plus all the surcharges)

Now the company can recover this from the employee. Again in public companies, no problem.

What about private companies? They have to get their company valued by a "class 1 merchant banker" (read: big fees). And this is not a one timer, it's for every vesting. Plus, how do you recover the FBT from an employee at all? the shares aren't traded, and if hte value is huge (let's say a VC came in and provided a big chunk of money at a big ticket valuation) the company is liable to pay a lot of money for an intangible benefit. Yeah, i know, silly law, but it's the law.

So RSU (Restricted Stock Units) are better. For that you need to create a separate entity - could be a trust or a separate company owned by the founders. The company allocates shares to say the new CEO, and the trust has the right to buy back the shares at par. The right dissolves over four years (say after year 1, itt becomes the right to buy back 3/4th the shares and so on) This is a good policy and the reason the company can't buy back its own shares is that there are some restrictions on the buying back of any shares by a company itself.

Still you will have to do the 55L transaction to the employee (and which is compensation so take out 33.99% of it as TDS, paid to the government)

Of course if you have no problem with the current owners diluting then yes of course you can sell your shares. Just transfer 5 lakh shares to the new CEO from current owners (get a share transfer form and do the regulatory paperwork) and pay some stamp duty and you're done.

(Btw, is there a person who can help with this stuff in Mumbai? I need to do some of this myself)

And if you're still going the stock options route: for dividends and bonuses the strike price and quantity should adjusted accordingly. No voting rights. If you want to see how the NSE does it, let me know, I can send you a link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last budget introduced a huge problem for stock option plans - that the employers pay Fringe Benefit Tax when the option vests. This seems to be not on issue, and not on exercise, but on vesting. For public companies, not a big problem as they have a market value and the FBT rules indicate that the difference between the market value and the strike price on the day of vesting is the value on which FBT is payable (30% plus all the surcharges)</p>
<p>Now the company can recover this from the employee. Again in public companies, no problem.</p>
<p>What about private companies? They have to get their company valued by a &#8220;class 1 merchant banker&#8221; (read: big fees). And this is not a one timer, it&#8217;s for every vesting. Plus, how do you recover the FBT from an employee at all? the shares aren&#8217;t traded, and if hte value is huge (let&#8217;s say a VC came in and provided a big chunk of money at a big ticket valuation) the company is liable to pay a lot of money for an intangible benefit. Yeah, i know, silly law, but it&#8217;s the law.</p>
<p>So RSU (Restricted Stock Units) are better. For that you need to create a separate entity - could be a trust or a separate company owned by the founders. The company allocates shares to say the new CEO, and the trust has the right to buy back the shares at par. The right dissolves over four years (say after year 1, itt becomes the right to buy back 3/4th the shares and so on) This is a good policy and the reason the company can&#8217;t buy back its own shares is that there are some restrictions on the buying back of any shares by a company itself.</p>
<p>Still you will have to do the 55L transaction to the employee (and which is compensation so take out 33.99% of it as TDS, paid to the government)</p>
<p>Of course if you have no problem with the current owners diluting then yes of course you can sell your shares. Just transfer 5 lakh shares to the new CEO from current owners (get a share transfer form and do the regulatory paperwork) and pay some stamp duty and you&#8217;re done.</p>
<p>(Btw, is there a person who can help with this stuff in Mumbai? I need to do some of this myself)</p>
<p>And if you&#8217;re still going the stock options route: for dividends and bonuses the strike price and quantity should adjusted accordingly. No voting rights. If you want to see how the NSE does it, let me know, I can send you a link.</p>
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		<title>By: srinivas</title>
		<link>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167527</link>
		<dc:creator>srinivas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.venturewoods.org/index.php/2008/02/17/stock-compensation-in-early-stage-start-ups-shares-or-stock-options/#comment-167527</guid>
		<description>Vamsi,

I would like to know two things - what is the dilution you have done during first round funding and what is the stock holding percentage of promoters post funding.

Once this information is available I can suggest a very practical solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vamsi,</p>
<p>I would like to know two things - what is the dilution you have done during first round funding and what is the stock holding percentage of promoters post funding.</p>
<p>Once this information is available I can suggest a very practical solution.</p>
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